Love and Dating in a Pandemic: The Experts Weigh In
A panel discussion with 3 nationally recognized experts on dating and relationships about how to date safely in a pandemic and why video dating is here to stay.
On May 7, I moderated a panel discussion with 3 nationally recognized experts on dating and relationships: Andrea Syrtash (Founder of Pregnantish, on-air personality and author of 5 books including “He’s Just Not Your Type (And That’s a Good Thing)“); Evan Marc Katz, dating coach for smart women, founder of Love U, author of 4 books, 30 million+ blog readers; and Geoff Cook, founder and CEO of The Meet Group, which operates a portfolio of mobile dating apps with over 4 million users.
The topics included:
How to date safely in a pandemic
Why video dating is here to stay
Why now is a great time to be dating
Esther Perel’s tips for married couples in a quarantine
How families should think about expanding their quarantine bubble
DZ: It’s an interesting time to be dating. Our need for human connection hasn’t changed, but the rules for what’s acceptable have changed. How should people think about dating and connecting in fun, safe ways in a time of social distancing?
AS: Years ago I was a spokesperson for Skype, and I tried to share the idea for video dating. And everyone thought it was crazy. The number one complaint I hear from online daters is that the person looks / sounds nothing like what they expected from online. That can be through an app, or a site.
What’s wonderful about video dating is we get an impression of someone as a pre-date. I’m not saying people should date for 4 months that way. But we can establish a connection and we’re less likely to be catfished if we meet this way before we make plans for a physical date. Now we don’t know exactly when the physical date will happen. But with the weather getting nicer, you can have social distanced walks and get to know someone. I think there’s a great opportunity in this crazy time because of that.
GC: We’re a public company, we trade on Nasdaq. Since mid-March, when the WHO declared a pandemic and everyone shut down, we saw a 40-50% increase in live-streaming video time. People obviously were locked up in their houses. We surveyed our users. 87% of them say that they were respecting the stay-at-home orders, and they’re not really seeing anyone other than the people in their household. That leads them to be going to different things – people using Zoom for dating, Google for video, and livestreaming apps for dating.
What we’re seeing is dramatic increase in adoption of our live-streaming solutions, both 1-to-1 solutions and our 1-to-many solutions. We have this “date night” game where people, it’s a 1-to-many, and people line up in a queue to date the primary streamer, and the primary streamer gets to choose “next” or “date” for each person. That’s been a pretty successful feature. We’re seeing ad revenue come in, we’re seeing video usage go up.
If you look at what people are saying in these surveys, a lot of them are spending more time together. 70% of couples are saying they’ve spent more time together in the last month than they did in the previous month. People are arguing more. We’re seeing 25% of people saying they’re willing to go on virtual dates. What we’re starting to worry about is not just how do we get more video out, but how do we play the next side of this. When the world starts to open up and you need to do real-life dating well, you’ll need to have this filter of video prior to the date. We think people will not want to risk exposure to the virus for potentially shallow, swiping sorts of dates.
EMK: This is a great time for dating. I can’t emphasize that enough, as crazy as that sounds, as counterintuitive as it sounds. Understand that everything is a perspective shift. I come here as a dating coach for smart, strong, successful women who are looking for quality guys and for-real relationships. The biggest problem that they face are dating apps, swiping and texting.
The guys who are swiping right and sending dick pics are kind of out of business right now. If that’s your game, you’re not doing that well, and you have to adjust. The good news is there’s been a ton written about this. The whole world is prone to confirmation bias. Fast Company, Time Magazine, Helen Fisher in the NYT, all talking about how this is a really valuable reset for people who are used to instant gratification. Meeting as quickly as possible and hopping into bed. This is forcing them into what are actually better dating habits that allow them to get to know each other without the instant gratification that normally comes with swiping right and texting and hopping into bed. I think there’s a golden opportunity here, for when the world’s a safer place, for us to bring these practices into the post Covid world.
DZ: Geoff, you run one of the biggest dating app companies out there. I came up with a new dating app I’d love to run by you and get your opinion on. I’m calling it Riskr. It lets you filter dates by their level of risk tolerance. You can set it for phone calls only, or you can say socially distanced walks only, or maybe all the way up to more intimate encounters depending on your risk tolerance. So it’s a joke, but I think it’s also a serious question people are wrestling with. How do you think people should think about the risks when it comes to dating now and how people should think about escalating things when they’re getting to know somebody?
GC: It’s a fair thought. I mentioned the surveys we do of our users. People have some real discrepancies in how they answer the question of how socially distant they want their partner to be. This week, 25% of our users said “No location would feel safe” in which to meet someone. But at the same time, you have 40% of people saying a beach, 50% of people saying a park would be safe. So people are obviously going to try to meet. Then you go down the list and a concert is less than 23%. But still you have 23% of people thinking a concert would still be reasonable right now.
It wouldn’t surprise me to see an idea like the one you just said work its way into filters on dating apps. In terms of preference of the user. Because I think it comes down to not just location but personal preference. Even within the state of New York, you might have NYC taking a very long time to open up, but then you might have upstate with bars and restaurants open. And then across the country you’ll have unevenness across the states as well.
Everyone’s gonna have their own answer as to how you deal with this menace of the plague. Everyone’s individual reaction is unique. I think the concept is an interesting one. I wouldn’t be surprised to see that work its way into mainstream apps.
DZ: Cool, I’ve got my next billion dollar idea. What about you, Andrea? Let’s get the female perspective. How should people think about the risks of dating now?
AS: I think there’s a great opportunity now to learn about someone’s character. Some people are using humor; some people are downplaying it; some people are researching, researching, researching. You learn a lot about people. Dating is set up where we put our best foot forward, and right away we’re in this fantasy land. I always say everyone’s lying the first 6 months of dating, they just don’t know it. At least the first few months of dating. Because you’re in this fantasy land. Now we’re all kind of shot into this real world where we will, no matter what, learn how people respond to hard circumstances. And that’s a really good thing. That gives us a good window into someone’s values and character. So I’m like-minded with Evan, I agree about the opportunities here. I never want to say this is all a great thing.
But one thing I always tell people is to have a successful date, you need to be present. You need to be your vacation self. You know when you’re on vacation you’re not thinking, who am I talking to in the buffet line. Well there’s not a buffet line now, but you get my point. Whoever I’m talking to, am I going to have a future with this person? When you meet someone on a plane, , you’re not thinking through all those things you tend to self-sabotage yourself with on early dates. This time makes us all very aware, very present, and learning about each other in ways you can’t help learning. I think it’s cool that way.
DZ: I see we already have a heated debate about the proper spelling of my billion-dollar app, Riskr, in the comments section, so thank you all for contributing to that. Evan, what are your thoughts here?
EMK: I really love going last after 2 really smart people come up with good ideas, so thank you for that. What was the question?
DZ: How should people think about managing risks when it comes to dating now, and how they should think about escalating things if they like somebody but they’re concerned about safety?
EMK: If my experience on Facebook today is any indication, people have very different ideas about what’s actually going on here. Because I’m in the trenches with people, the nature of my job is I’m on the phone hearing their very intimate stories, I’ve got clients who are just completely shut down, haven’t left the house for a month. I’ve got clients who are sleeping with guys because they agreed to not see anybody else. So I think it is very much a personal decision. But I’ve seen evidence that, like with everything, there’s a whole spectrum of outcomes.
There are people who are curling into the fetal position, saying “wake me when it’s over.” And I’ve clients who are really dating in earnest and have cultivated in the past 6 weeks actual boyfriends. Guys who are committed to them, and they talk every night for hours, and they do socially distanced walks. You watch these relationships blossom. There’s gonna be a point when we get back to normal-ish where we realize a lot of these relationships were long-distance fantasies. We invest in someone and it turns out not to go anywhere in real life. There’s also gonna be a lot of seeds that are planted right now that are going to blossom and pay off into real relationships.
It’s a great lesson in life in general, to delay gratification. To learn to study instead of partying until 2 in the morning. To not have the extra drink. To wear the condom. This is sort of the ultimate delayed gratification. If people can find their way through this, I can imagine this will be a story a lot of people tell their kids someday.
DZ: Thanks Evan. I agree. In my own life, I’ve seen examples of people who met somebody right before shelter-in-place was announced, and fast-forward a month later, and now they’re basically living together. I think as time goes on we’re gonna hear a lot more of these stories. It’s really an interesting opportunity or experiment to get to know each other under extreme pressure. It will be cool to see how many of those relationships work out.
I want to ask one more question. This is a question for people who are in committed relationships. I know a lot of people on the call are married or in committed relationships. Esther Perel, the noted relationship counselor and therapist, has talked about the importance of creating boundaries, and routines, and rituals. Having a separation between daytime and evening, working time and idle time, family time and individual time. What advice do you have for people in committed relationships about how to maintain their relationships with all the new challenges people are facing now? Evan, I’ll let you go first this time.
EMK: We’ve been married for 12 years. I’ve always worked from home. I’ve been less affected by the shutdown than anyone I can imagine. I’ve never left the house anyway, and now I’m definitely not leaving the house. We have a lot of togetherness. I’m at home. My wife’s a stay-at-home mom. We have 2 kids and they’re home-schooling. It’s a process of reinvention. We’re already really comfortable in this. When I’m at work, everyone leaves me alone from 9 to 5 for the most part, and then I can come out and play Dad.
We have created our own rituals. Now everyone’s cooking every night. Saturday night is takeout night. Last Saturday, we did margaritas, we went pretty wild. I feel like the tension between people is, as Esther Perel rightfully pointed out, no one is used to spending 24-7 together. And the more time you spend together, 100 little decisions and choices have to be made, and the more choices that have to be made with personalities, there’s gonna be more friction.
The friction between us, it’s been there, but the nice part is it allows you to build up that skill set of problem solving. I can’t design anyone’s perfect coronavirus life. I can say it’s a really useful test to avoid finger pointing. And to work on, how do WE work through this instead of attacking them and trying to prove them wrong.
My wife and I have different ideas about social distancing. She wants to go out with her friends. I don’t know if I approve of that! We’re having those conversations and trying to be really respectful of each other to keep the peace in the house because we want to create a bubble for our kids. To me, the answer is to use this as an opportunity to come together instead of the thing that pulls us apart. But I do predict, there will be a nice big divorce boom in 2021.
AS: I wrote a book called “Cheat on Your Husband with Your Husband” way before this was all happening. This is a great opportunity now with boundaries. Esther and I have been on panels, she’s fantastic, and I would always defer to her advice. But in general, from my research for my book, I think the happiest couples have a dynamic life together and an active life apart. How do you bring that into a quarantine? You still can. My husband and I have divided the day. We have a toddler who needs constant attention, because she touches and opens everything. We’ve divided the day. We’re both working full time-ish. One of us works in the morning, one of us works in the afternoon, and we meet for meals. But we literally do not see each other other than for meals.
We have this time where we try to turn off our screens and connect. That’s one of the tips from my book. Especially now more than ever, we need to be conscious of our screen time. Obviously we have to have it. But when we’re connecting in a partnership, it’s really cool to say ok, we’re gonna have an hour tonight with no screens. What are we gonna do with that hour? You could play a game. What’s not a chore that we can do together to connect as lovers and partners, not just parents and roommates? I think that’s something I would definitely recommend as well. So carving out that conscious time.
Part of the work of a relationship is keeping the play alive. We’re all exhausted now. I’m not going to say it’s going to be easy to play. But even if it’s just lazing around without a screen, with your legs in your partner’s lap reading together, whatever it is it doesn’t matter. Just do something for one hour a day without screens. That’s my challenge and suggestion.
GC: One thing we do here in Princeton is we go on a lot of walks. One or two hour walks. We’ve learned more about our neighborhood in the last 2 months than in the last 10 years, by far. Going to the brook, we found a creek. These jaunts can be really fun. I’m married with 3 children, age 5, 9, and 13. These walks are a great way to bond and have family time, screen free time. Typically no one’s gonna be on their screen in the middle of a walk. I think that’s been great.
It was a big decision to not have any housecleaning service earlier in this pandemic. I’d have to say, for reclaiming time, a Roomba is a pretty useful device. We’ve learned this in the family as this was going on.
A thing that’s relevant to us, especially for my kids, is do we expand our bubble to include other families that are abiding by the same protocol. I’ve actually written the protocol. There are a number of our close friends and family who follow it. To date, that doesn’t mean anything to us. But as we get into the summer, as the world start to open up, we’re at least starting to think well gee, if you follow the protocol for 14 days, is it something where you can let people in. I think that obviously would help with a lot of people’s sanity. Even having one other family or 1 or 2 other families in the bubble.
I don’t think of it as splitting the day. I think of it as more as finding the routines that work for you. My little guy who’s 5 started playing maze books in the morning, and that’s kind of become a routine. You wouldn’t think doing some mazes in the morning with me would be a routine, and it wouldn’t be, except for this pandemic, but that’s become one. Playing basketball at night is one. Sometimes routines just make themselves, and if it’s fun you just keep it going.
DZ: Thanks Geoff. I’ve enjoyed seeing your photos of the trees and plants and flower in Princeton. I think you could have a second career as an arborist or a botanist if you decide to do so.
Let’s turn it over to questions from the audience. I’m sure a lot of people have questions. You can raise your hands if you want, or you can type it into the group chat.
Q: I just finished chemo in January and I have hair again, but it’s not like my former hair. When it comes to having a profile and doing zoom dating or calling, I don’t want to mislead anyone, so I’m not putting any photos up. I haven’t even started that process yet. All of my photos from last year have hair down to my waist. Now it’s almost as short as yours Daniel. A little bit longer. Any ideas on how to move forward to that - being real but also kind of dealing with that issue?
AS: First of all, I hope you’re doing well and I really appreciate your question. I think this is an opportunity through words in a profile to explain your place in life and what’s happening right now. That you’re engaged and excited about meeting new people, you’re feeling good and you want real talk you wanna be real about where you are right now. I think this pandemic, like I said in my earlier answer, is exposing our character more than ever, really fast. And people who are so superficial that they can’t over that, or engage with you because of that - well, next. That’s how I see it. I think within the written part of the profile, you can mention why you didn’t post a picture, and you still wanna connect with people and your hair is growing back and you’re feeling good.
Q: Thank you, I appreciate that.
EMK: I love Andrea, I just disagree with everything she just said. Here’s my thinking. Again, the beautiful thing is, it’s really hard to argue with the truth. No one’s ever done well by trafficking in lies. The idea is that online dating remains advertising. Your profile is supposed to attract people in the best possible way. It’s a personal ad, it’s an advertisement for you. If I’m you, I’m putting up the best photos of you that you have, that are relatively recent pre-chemo. I’m writing a killer online dating profile that is warm and vibrant and does not talk your cancer or your hair. I’m engaging in conversation on the dating the, I’m engaging in conversation on Gmail, I’m scheduling a zoom call, and at some point in that process it will come out voluntarily the truth about your situation. And that way, they’ll be prepared to see you on zoom. So instead of leading with that, it’s no different from a guy leading with the fact that he just lost his job and putting that on his profile, It may be true, it may be painful, but it’s not a sales point. I think that’s information that can come out a little bit later and it doesn’t need to be advertised up front.
AS: I can see what Evan’s saying. I think both would serve you, honestly. I think we’re in an age right now where we’re all vulnerable, nobody is not vulnerable right now. I think to speak the truth and still be your charming self and your articulate self and your wonderful vibrant self within that is OK. But take whatever from what we both said. Evan and I sometimes disagree. We used to co-write a column where it was a he-said, she-said. Take whatever resonates the most with you and try it. And the great thing is you can try again, if the strategy doesn’t seem to be working.
DZ: Myra, I see your hand is up, do you want to ask a question for the panel?
MS: I’m a lot older than all of you. I’m just really putting my toe into the dating pool. I was sort of interested in people talking about sort of using video, I forget what the exact category is, using a laptop for you’re talking to people, they can hear you and they can see you. What is that called, and what organization do you look up online to get involved in that?
GC: It sounds like you’re looking for opportunity to talk to someone over your computer with video. Is that right?
MS: Exactly.
GC: There’s a number of ways to get started with something like that. If you know who you want to talk to, Facebook has a live setting, you can go into Facebook live. Zoom has a free account that’s 40 minutes free. You can get a Zoom account, obviously you have one, you can be free on zoom and invite people to that. If you’re looking to meet people for the first time via video, you could check out any number of dating apps. We have MeetMe, but even other apps like Hinge. They may or may not have video components, but people are increasingly moving to video as they connect. Those videos can be the form of Facetime, they can be Facebook Live, it could be 1-on-1 video on these dating platforms. So there are a lot of options for video right now.
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